Okay, I took the first post down because I don’t know if was done in the right spirit. I still want to communicate what I was trying to convey. I want to be honest today with my struggle. This will be real honest so I apologize if I offend you up front.
I want to give you a quick backdrop. I came out of extreme Pentecostalism. Though there I believe I was genuinely saved. I was attracted to their cause for holiness (or at least I thought). You see they were holy in matters that really don’t matter to Jesus. The way they dressed, they didn’t smoke or drink, they didn’t wear makeup and they had a high view of the Gifts of the Spirit. However when it came to gossip, judgmentalism and just plain on messiness they had no power in these areas.
I was first introduced to Reformed Theology by a good friend of mine. I had always wrestled with the truth of the scriptures but Jesus usually took the blame when some group of churches wasn’t lining up with what Jesus taught. To me Church and Jesus were joined at the hip. I So I was pushed into the arms of Reformed Theology. They didn’t run around the church, have huge restrictions (at least I thought) and they studied the bible a lot. Gave me a grip of head knowledge. I became smart pretty quick. For years these men could no wrong. If they wrote a book it was right, what they felt about the gifts (Master’s) was correct and the books they recommended was the books I read. I became a Reformed Groupie I guess you can say. I loved the fact that they would rip into the extreme Pentecostalism I read the books and everything (you know which ones). I loved the Doctrines of Grace and all they taught. Man I was excited about a lot.
Something happened to me along the way folks. I started to realize something. There seem to be a double standard consistently. As I read the books of those my favorite preacher was reading something became clear. Those who had good theology got a pass for heinous orthopraxy. Let me ask what is worse. A man who owns and sales slaves or a man who appoints a woman as an elder. Okay let me put it this way. Joel Olsteen vs Johnathan Edwards? Yes Joel Olsteen is horrible, but man, if you can look me in the eye and say one of the most prized theologians, one who can handle the text like a brain surgeon handles a brain couldn’t figure out that kidnapped men, women and children, kept against their own will, encouraged to engage in sexual immorality (remember most slaves couldn’t marry and even if they could their marriage was about accepted as Obama at a Republican convention) for the job of reproduction, split up whenever Master needed some extra money was humane, then I am selling golden goose eggs for $5 a piece!
Now for some reason a guy can’t be a gay bishop but a guy can be a slave owning theologian. Paul, John and James and especially Jesus talks about the love of neighbor and enemy more than anything else. Even if you thought slavery was right Philemon had to have to have some impact on you. Philemon was in the bible before 1964 right?
I am even beginning to wrestle with Reformed Hermeneutics versus Experiential Hermeneutics. It is funny that Martin Luther’s hermeneutic encouraged the Reformers to burn men at the stake, drown them in lakes and imprison and torture them. While Martin Luther Kings hermeneutic encouraged him to free a people peacefully. It is funny that Calvin’s hermeneutic encouraged him to force everyone under their government to submit to Christianity but brothers like Menno and others were pacifist.
It is funny that during Reformation day we celebrate a man for nailing a theses on a wall but ignoring the fact to love your neighbor while we ignore individuals like Viola Liuzzo. I bet Sheriff Clark’s theology was much better than James Reeb a Unitarian who died at the hands of racist. For some reason we reject MLK for having some shady theology but we embrace ML the Reformer who had horrible practice.
Today a man can use filthy communication even profane reference to our relationship with Jesus but the same individual can discipline a man for deciding to stay at home while his wife works. It is funny that some can mock and caricaturize individuals but the same people get upset if someone decides they don’t want someone pastoring them. It is funny that we have no problem with visionary even ambitious pastors, but when a woman is ambitious she is living outside of God’s will. It is funny that we have no problem dividing with a church that appoints female pastors but write volumes on men who owned slaves.
We measure one group people with one ruler and another group (the group we like) with a broken ruler. I have seen people say “this is God’s chosen president” in reference to Bush. They have no problem with torture, the bombing of innocent, the reckless disregard for the poor, but turn in the other breath and call Obama “the most liberal president ever”. We don’t care if Muslim babies die, well because they are Muslim we just don’t want American babies dying.
It is funny that many of the unlearned (you know the ones who are mocked on blogs) don’t know much about the bible but obey what they do know, while others know a bunch about the bible and do very little of what it says. But it doesn’t matter accumulation of facts is more important that putting the facts you know into practice. Good theology gets you a pass in Reformed Circles while good practice is outright ignored.
The right reading of the bible is better than the right practice. It is funny that Jesus has the same problem with the Pharisees, their orthodoxy was spot on! However, Jesus tells them twice “I desire mercy and not sacrifice”. It is funny that the smartest bible people happen to be the most abrasive people I know. It is funny that Jesus said “they will know you are my…. by your love for one another” I wonder what the world has thought of us thus far.
You see I am beginning to struggle with much of this. Why? Because what I see when I look up ain’t what I see when I read. We are more concerned to flock to conferences where “truth” is preached versus live it out. We are more impressed with theologians who are untouchable than man and women who minister in trailer parks. Not to mention I know guys who have turned down the “call” to pastorate because the money wasn’t right, while I see some brother and sisters ministering in trailer parks with their own money. I know a man who travels on his own dime to different parts of the world for Jesus while I see churches say they can’t support missionaries while sitting in a 20 Million dollar building.
The more I read, the more I spend time with people the more I realize the blaring inconsistencies. We expositorly preach through James while ignoring his commands on being impartial. We preach through Ephesians while ignoring the command to be kind, patient, gracious. We like Ephesians 1 more than we like Ephesians 4. We are more concerned that the guy quit speaking in prayer language, than we are feeding the poor.
I used to once believe that “if you preach to the mind the heart will change”. I now say “if you preach to the heart the mind will change”. I believe it is the heart that changes the mind. Why? Because the people who have all made a huge difference in this world had great hearts. While those with the greatest minds sit back and philosophize. But we love knowledge, we love being smarter than others and we hand out a broken ruler to prove it.
I am not innocent of this. For years and years I would praise Martin Luther while pointing out the flaws of Martin Luther King. For years I would applaud the Reformers while turning a blind eye to the True Reformers. I want to say this plainly as I can. Lets stop being hypocritical. We point fingers at Rob Bell and others while we ourselves refuse to engage the same people that he engages. We don’t want sinners to interrupt our holiness. While these men storm bars and the like. I am starting to believe that many of these gentleman that I use to loathe are beginning to look much more like Jesus and the ones I used to esteem, not so much. The Pharisees were all head and little heart. They tied millstones and yoked people up to heavy burdens. They had little heart and much facts. For some reason the Jesus I see in scripture, man, He spent much more time giving of Himself than writing books and holding conferences. He was touchable, He was approachable, He spent time where the religious elite would never go. He touched people that they would never touch. He served in ways that the religious elite wanted to be served. Jesus was really different and my reading of the scriptures was blinded so I only saw the Jesus that called the Pharisees “brood of vipers” not the Jesus that ministered to an adulterous woman by a well.
I didn’t see the Jesus who went into Zaccheus house but I did see the Jesus that flipped over the money changers table. I didn’t see the Jesus who was called a drunkard and a friend of sinners. But I did see the Jesus who said “depart from me you evildoers”. Thats funny. Maybe because I even came to the bible with a broken ruler. Or maybe not. I guess I am just saying man things are different. I don’t know if that is good or bad, but it is. For some reason my heart is becoming more and more compassionate. Maybe that is because of men like Alan Knox, Dr. David Black, maybe I missed from pastors like Dhati and Calvin. There are so many people in my life now that have been pushing me in a different direction. Not because of what they say but because of how they live. They don’t just read their bibles. They care about people. I have brothers who won’t get any recognition for sleeping in tents in trailer parks. Or uprooting their family from the suburbs to minister to marginalized individuals. People who sit in mobile homes with alcoholics while cigarette smoke and who knows what other kind of smoke is blown.
Men and women who touch the lepers of America, Ethiopia and the Muslim world. I have been moved, because they look more like Jesus than any of the Reformers with their right theology. I am rambling here but tape your ruler together when you get a chance and be as critical on those prized theologians as you are on those you don’t like. You may be surprised that they are the same size!
Lionel,
As I stated before, this is a very worthwhile post. If we look at the life of Jesus most of His time was spent with people in the streets and in their homes. Yes, he taught in the synagogue but this was hardly mentioned in scripture. You said you believe the heart changes the mind. It reminds me of an old saying “People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” I pray that we can all find the balance between “Head” theology and “Heart” theology.
Lionel’
Brother your preaching!!! Amen!!!
James 1:26-27
2 cor.10:12 “for we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves among themselves, are not wise”.
be encouraged lionel~ if you lose some from your reformed circle because of how you’re thinking now~ don’t worry, dee and i will still be your friends…… uh, that is if you don’t mind associating with a couple of pastorless mavericks.
Lionel,
Keep on breaking through the non biblical tradional molds!
I truly can understand where you’re coming from Bro. For similar reasons, I just cannot get into the theologian Robert Dabney – as good as they say he was. Neither am I moved by the life of Stonewall Jackson.
I’m even at a point where there are websites where theologically I would be more at one with them than you, but because of (as far as I can see) unchecked sin, my conscience no longer allows me to post. Am I saying that I’m better? No.
Just saying I’m at point where I’m LEARNING that I might think somebody is a heretic straight from hell – but guess what? The sermon on the mount tells me there is a way to deal with them.
Basically lets “walk our talk”
Amen!
Check this. your right. now the tention begins. John and I were kicked off radio for the same type of double standard.
We spoke against Billy graham and the next week we were gone. J.T. GOES verbally nuts at the Standup conf, and leaders said we shamed the cross of Christ. I questioned a
apologetic leader about the humanity of Christ after coming
back from africa, he said it did not matter: but christ was not, nor ever will he be black, when that was never the question. My bro’s in the innercity, argue against the Asuwa Kwasi arguement, that the bible is tainted, because King James was a homosexual. But fail to argue the removal of anti homsexual themes in scripture. One might even call me into question because I voted for Obama. Why Why Why. Can we as people have double standards for everyone then ourselves. Check this out gentelmen. I dated the Apostolic of Apostolics Lisa Leblanc Rollerson http://www.asusatoday.org way back in the day, and we are still good friends. Why is it that we have these difficulties. Maybe because we bring the learning aspect to the text, the same way our teacher, mentor brings it. This could be the problem. I dont think the same way John Coleman does, but I do struggle to apply or remove Ideas, based on the revealed will of God. Origen, said Sin is the lack of conformity, to the revealed will of God, and the refusal to be related to the creator by faith in him. Luv you bros. One Luv Pastor Xerxes
P.S CHECK OUT Basics on Youtube with John Coleman and some other stuff
http://www.youtube.com/user/FLEASY2323
I understand your thinking on these matters, but I believe the fundemental problem is our idolatry, ML, MLK, Obama, Republican, in everycase our eyes our off the Lord and on somthing else. That’s Idolatry. Most of our Theology must be judged in the context of history. ML and the roman church, MLK and the civil rights movement, Obama and abortion, Republicans and greed and murder. If someone comes out of heresy and embraces orthodoxy they bring alot of baggage. Maybe thats just me but I have had glaring problems in my walk with Christ that were social norms and I did not see the errors of my way until it was pointed out by someone else. (often it was Paul Washer) American christians have bought into the lie that America is God’s country, or that works will save you. But it is mostly the ignorant of whom I am chief that are living as follers of the Way. We must throw all of it away (Die to ourselves) but that is not easy and it must always be occuring (Daily). You are right about what you say that we measure unequally, but I admire ML because of his flaws in that a man with so many still in the halls of time Glorified God. May God bless you and keep all of us growing in Grace.
Judge our brothers and sisters before us according to the historical context of that time. We can probably understand them more in the historical lens than our modern view of them.
There should be a balance with theology and applying what we learn. I think there is freedom in Christ to live out our walk and ministry according to our gifts as long as it honors and upholds scripture. I recognize my own failings, I know I don’t do enough yet I am comforted in that there are many godly men who have struggled and triumphed. God is not limited by our weaknesses.
Lionel live in grace, enjoy God, read your bible, serve your Lord in whatever He wants you to do. You might change some through theology yet you will affect others through your life. Christ will always work in us the will to do but he will also be the finisher of our faith. So don’t beat yourself up too much. I come from a Pentecostal church and have been in the same church for 16 years now. Thankfully we are not extreme but I have found that Reformed theology has helped me understand the Bible, worship and serve God with more joy than ever before. talk about a weird mix Reformed Pentecostalism lol.
Soli Deo Gloria
Edwin
Lionel
I am encouraged to see how you examine things by what you read in scripture. You looked directly at Jesus Christ and how He lived out His ministry, testing all around you. I commend you my brother. It is great to see the life of Jesus Christ lived out. That’s shining His light. How I behave as a Christian is important to me. Reading the scriptures is great, applying them is even greater. When I can minister the scriptures to people who ask on a verse, that is great. But when I get home I am neglecting my wife and children, that’s a problem. Am I living Christ? Or am Ijust spewing a lot of mess. I had one preacher ask me long time ago had I answered the ‘call’ yet? I said no, because my house is not in order. I treat me wife like dirt, how can I teach God’s Word and not be living it out at home. You know he told me, “you don’t need your house to be straight to teach, you may be rejected God attempting to put your hosue in order”. What? Why is having the knowledge and the name more important than living the life of Jesus Christ. Why is knowing the Word more encouraged then living the Word? This post is encouraging to just receive but more importantly, GIVE.
I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. (Acts 20:35)
God bless
Karsten Miller
Lionel,
i have been reading your blog for quite some time now, but this is my first time commenting. Thanks for this post. Hopefully some day we can meet up in person. It seems we have a lot in common. We’ve traversed similar theological paths. i grew up in the Black Baptist tradition before i was converted. My first experience of true Christian community was among believers from the Holiness/Pentecostal tradition. Then i moved on to evangelicalism (think Bible Answer Man), then Reformed theology (5 solas & points). And as i dug more into the Scriptures, i began to discover New Covenant Theology (8 years ago). And for the last 4 years i’ve been learning much from the anabaptist tradition (esp. re: ecclesiology and discipleship). Your latest post reminds me of a conversation that i had with a sister in Christ almost 6 years ago. In fact, i had a similar conversation with a brother from my church yesterday morning. i know exactly what it is to struggle with Luther vs. MLK, RL Dabney and Edwards, orthodoxy vs. orthopraxy, head vs. heart, etc.
Currently, i am a member of an SBC church that draws heavily from the Reformed/Calvinist tradition. i love this church and i am committed to serving Christ among this body of believers. Of course, if i was a pastor/elder, there are reforms that i would make and new emphases that i would bring. (admittedly, because i am a sinner, some of them would probably be unwise.) But i am called to submit to my elders and love the brethren. i say all of this to encourage you to not grow weary or impatient concerning the pace of reform in the church. i want to encourage you toward humility as the Spirit opens your mind to biblical truth. Bear with the weakenesses of others in love. Learn how to submit to those with whom you may disagree (e.g., God has called your wife to do this). Endeavor to gently communicate these things to others. Guard your heart against self-righteousness. i say these things to you, in part, because i am preaching to myself.
i often consider how most cults or false movements (e.g., Mormonism, JWs) started and it serves as a warning to me–someone looks around at the theological landscape and comes to the conclusion that “no one” is really following the Bible. So, they start their own “church,” which they consider to be faithful and true. And in doing so, they condemn the imperfect “others’ and eventually, begin to trust in their “distinctives” and stray from the gospel. i don’t mean to imply that you are doing this, but i want to warn you against such a temptation. Of course, this is a tricky path to navigate, because i’m sure many believed Wycliffe, Luther, Simmons, Puritans and Anabaptists were schismatic and even heretical, yet the reforms that they encouraged were necessary and have greatly benefited the church of Jesus Christ.
Well, i’ve said a lot, so i should probably wrap this up. i hope some of this is helpful to you. i don’t know if i have any clear answers, except to keep the gospel in the center and walk in love and humility.
Bro. Christopher,
Your words helped me, and I’m sure Bro. Lionel, if no one else.
Sorry been a bit busy, so I will try to respond to all in one swail swoop.
Carey,
I agree brother. I believe that there is a balance and I believe God allowed me and even encouraged me over the last 4 years to eat up and gobble all of those sermons by Ferguson, Duncan, MacArthur, Piper, Sproul, Jones, Horton, Azzuradi and others. I also believe that handling of scripture has caused such a joy in my heart that I am now persuing. The balance is a trickey one but one we should wrestle with none the less.
Maverick,
I knew you two would always be my friend
) !
Cushie,
I agree, I think Jesus’ ministry was more about was much more compassionate than people put out. Pureness of heart, meekness and the like are signs of one who understand the Grace Jesus has provided through His death.
Chris,
Do you think our current book production, podcast ministries and celebrity like teachers produce idolatry in our hearts? I don’t think they mean to but I think because of their fight for truth and making their ministries so popular this has been the offspring. I don’t think I ever heard the guys I enjoy say “don’t buy my book or listen to my sermons”.
Edwin,
Do you believe we do that today. For example when we talk about “seeker sensitive” do we measure them with the same measure of grace we extend to Calvin and Luther? Do we measure those who embrace homosexuality with the same measure of grace we do those who owned and sold slaves? Thats the question I am asking. Not combatively but honestly and with the same level of criticism.
KM,
I am glad that you are seeing that and I am glad you are at Hope where you can work that out with what seems to be an unbeliveable group of believers. BTW, I am just beginning to live this life out and it was because of guys that I used to call “heretics” but now I see them trying to live everyday with a heart of reconciling God’s creation to Him by a Spirit of Love. I don’t agree with much of their theology but I do believe the Reformers left out compassion, patience, and love but they did regain the bible and put it in the center which I applaud them for. Just struggle with the fact that we are incosistent with our standards, theological minded get passes while those who are a bit more experiential get criticized.
Christopher,
Thanks for finally commenting and thanks for your gracious response. I want to let you know that the purpose of this post was to say measure all with the same measure. I don’t do that with myself, or with others. For example when I say something dumb I chalk it up as a mistake when someone else says something they shouldn’t say I am much harder. It is funny that we rebuke Rob Bell for some loosey theology but ignore the fact that many “Reformed” pastors live in a library, confernces and the pulpit. I am saying that we must be balanced in our critique and that really starts with being honest with ourselves. I definitely ain’t out to spark a movement and my heart is to be more ecuminical not exclusive. That was another reason for the post. The last part was really about the humility part. God has been humbling me in many ways brother. I hope to express that with the next posts.
Lionel,
In response to the purpose of your post: Amen. Amen.
L,
You have been KILLING it recently. Love this post… I enjoy eavesdropping on your internal battles. It is encouraging to us bro.
Quote of the Day:
“Philemon was in the Bible before 1964, right?”
B Mann,
You remeber this from anywhere:
“I remember a few months back, I don’t know maybe 7 or 8 I wanted to get a bible study going at my church, really a man’s study. I was talking with a brother of mine and he said “Lionel you dudes don’t need to study the bible more, man go out and help somebody fix their car”. I thought to myself, “this brother doesn’t have a high view of the bible”. But then as time went on a month or so, I figured something out. He was right”
B Mann,
How is Levi brother. I sent you a few emails. How is Vera and FBCG? Things going well? Maybe we can catch up when we have time.
LOL. I definitely remember that convo. We have had some great ones. I would never say that at 98% of churches in America… but Lifeline was not in need of another Bible study, we needed to engage the community better!
Levi is doing well. The feeding tube is out and the doctors are encouraged by his progress. Sorry bro, your emails must have gotten mixed in with the flood. Let’s talk soon!
~B.
“tape your ruler together when you get a chance”
I love that statement!
The thing to remember is that truth is true no matter who espouses it and none of us has the corner on truth. In fact none of us gets it all right. Even the greatest theologians need to be double-checked.
With regard to the different ways we have of respecting one person or another according to their deeds, Paul even does this. Compare the way he talks to Philemon with the way he addresses the Corinthian church and the sexual immorality there. Jesus seemed to do this with regard to Judas and the Pharisees. And what of Paul who was a Pharisee and Jesus took him and made him an Apostle. Paul persecuted the church before his conversion and became such that he reprimanded Peter who merely betrayed Christ. What’s up with that?
Experientially, the world doesn’t make much sense. Could it be that stealing a cookie from mama’s cookie jar is no less sinful than buying, selling, beating and killing slaves? Against God’s holy ruler none of us stack up. So, the way we decide to handle sins, or even such as complimentarian/egalitarian policies, as a church is a matter of ecclesiology. One area of theology that may need some refinement is the point at which ecclesiology lends itself to sanctification – and that includes the idea that ALL of God’s people, not just the “professional” clergy are to be full time ministers of the gospel no matter where we work. We have the truth in the scriptures, but we are still learning how it’s supposed to impact the way we live our lives.