Comments on: Practical Wisdom For Calvinist (or Dispensationalist, CT, NCT, Paedo or Credo Baptist, Egalitarian or Complementarian) http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/ "But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises." Hebrews 8:6 Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:18:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Jon Paden http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/#comment-3538 Jon Paden Thu, 25 Sep 2008 04:49:56 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=799#comment-3538 Bro. Lawrence D., Let's let the scriptures speak for themselves: "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all." -Rom 11 "Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?” -Rom 9 Again, these scriptures and others like them seem to bring us to the conclusion that mans disobedience somehow fits in the purposes/plan of God to, in part, show His manifold wisdom, glory, power, mercy, etc. to not only humans but also to the angelic beings as well. Bro. Lawrence D.,

Let’s let the scriptures speak for themselves:

“For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.” -Rom 11

“Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?” -Rom 9

Again, these scriptures and others like them seem to bring us to the conclusion that mans disobedience somehow fits in the purposes/plan of God to, in part, show His manifold wisdom, glory, power, mercy, etc. to not only humans but also to the angelic beings as well.

]]> By: Bro. Lawrence D. http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/#comment-3526 Bro. Lawrence D. Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:18:24 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=799#comment-3526 Jon, I'm afraid that this will be a useless back and forth but I will attempt to engage in this dialogue so long as it appears to be fruitful. We have clear examples, in our every day life, of things that were created by men for one purpose but are being used for other purposes. One obvious occasion was 9-11. Airplanes were not invented to be flown into buildings. According to your logic, the Wright brothers are responsible for what happened on 9-11. I think they would disagree. In the same way, there are also things that God created that men use outside of the purposes of God, like the poppy plant. I can not envision that God had opium addicts as a purpose in His mind when He created the plant. In the same way Jon, I don't believe that God somehow "created" sin because that's what men have decided to do with the abilities God has given them. I have no doubt that God created Adam with the ABILITY to sin but not with the intention that Adam would sin. There's a big difference, in my opinion. Jon,

I’m afraid that this will be a useless back and forth but I will attempt to engage in this dialogue so long as it appears to be fruitful.

We have clear examples, in our every day life, of things that were created by men for one purpose but are being used for other purposes. One obvious occasion was 9-11. Airplanes were not invented to be flown into buildings. According to your logic, the Wright brothers are responsible for what happened on 9-11. I think they would disagree.

In the same way, there are also things that God created that men use outside of the purposes of God, like the poppy plant. I can not envision that God had opium addicts as a purpose in His mind when He created the plant.

In the same way Jon, I don’t believe that God somehow “created” sin because that’s what men have decided to do with the abilities God has given them. I have no doubt that God created Adam with the ABILITY to sin but not with the intention that Adam would sin. There’s a big difference, in my opinion.

]]> By: Jon Paden http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/#comment-3523 Jon Paden Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:27:21 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=799#comment-3523 Can any action done by humans be done outside of the initial parameters set by God at the time of creation. Therefore the desire to sin or action to sin is an action or desire that fits into the initial design of the creator. Nothing can or will be done outside of the design of the creator. Would you not agree? Sin and disobedience must therefore be attributed to the initial design of creation by God. Can any action done by humans be done outside of the initial parameters set by God at the time of creation. Therefore the desire to sin or action to sin is an action or desire that fits into the initial design of the creator. Nothing can or will be done outside of the design of the creator. Would you not agree? Sin and disobedience must therefore be attributed to the initial design of creation by God.

]]> By: Bro. Lawrence D. http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/#comment-3517 Bro. Lawrence D. Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:43:19 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=799#comment-3517 Jon, How do you define sin as a creation? I've read Genesis a lot of times and I can't find on what day God said "let there be sin". Sin is a description of an action done by humans in the same way as a kiss is a description of an action done by humans. Can you help me out here? Jon,

How do you define sin as a creation? I’ve read Genesis a lot of times and I can’t find on what day God said “let there be sin”. Sin is a description of an action done by humans in the same way as a kiss is a description of an action done by humans. Can you help me out here?

]]> By: Jon Paden http://blackandreformedministries.com/2008/09/17/practical-wisdom-for-calvinist/#comment-3515 Jon Paden Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:28:47 +0000 http://blackandreformedministries.wordpress.com/?p=799#comment-3515 Are you then saying that sin and disobedience came into existence without ever being created (outside of God)? Or did man create it? Did man also create the ability to be tempted and the ability to desire as well? Or are these too apart of the creation that God created? Or did our perfect unfailing God create a mistake in humans? But how could this be when He knows the end from the beginning. Did He not know that if He created humans in the way that He did and placed them in such an environment as He has placed us in that we all would fall to sin and disobey? So why can it not be logically concluded that God is the author of all things. For truly nothing ever has or ever will exist outside of the purposes of God who is the creator of all things. The problem with many Christians is that they do not understand that God's plan from the foundation of the world was to redeem man and reconcile all of creation back to Himself so that the scriptures are fulfilled that at the end or consumation of the ages when all things have been subjected to Christ, then Christ will subject Himself to the Father so that God will be all and in all. Amen Jon Paden Are you then saying that sin and disobedience came into existence without ever being created (outside of God)? Or did man create it? Did man also create the ability to be tempted and the ability to desire as well? Or are these too apart of the creation that God created? Or did our perfect unfailing God create a mistake in humans? But how could this be when He knows the end from the beginning. Did He not know that if He created humans in the way that He did and placed them in such an environment as He has placed us in that we all would fall to sin and disobey? So why can it not be logically concluded that God is the author of all things. For truly nothing ever has or ever will exist outside of the purposes of God who is the creator of all things. The problem with many Christians is that they do not understand that God’s plan from the foundation of the world was to redeem man and reconcile all of creation back to Himself so that the scriptures are fulfilled that at the end or consumation of the ages when all things have been subjected to Christ, then Christ will subject Himself to the Father so that God will be all and in all. Amen

Jon Paden

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