This was written by an elder in our church and I thought it was an excellent article-Enjoy
Tyris Horton Sr.
Author: Jim Elliff
Let me tell you why church discipline is important to me.
A number of years ago my minister father left my mother after an adulterous affair with his secretary. I’m telling this story with his permission. My father is now 90 years old.
This turn of events jarred us. We’ve not seen divorce often in our extended family. All of us are believers, and most of us are in the ministry, for four generations. While my father was working as a denominational executive, he began to counsel his secretary about her marriage. She found in him what she could not find in her husband. Soon, compromises entered in and adultery followed. My father did what he had often told us never to do—counsel someone of the opposite sex in a closed room. What seemed impossible to him and to us actually happened. And it happened within months of his retirement.
The four children gathered, from long distances, at my parent’s home to beg for dad’s repentance. He appeared to repent at that time, but soon backed away from it. Like Lot’s wife, his heart was gone, even though, by his own admission, there was nothing on my mother’s part to cause his sin. He did not turn around. Rather, he divorced my mother, married his secretary, and moved to another city. His retirement years, which at one time were going to be filled with ministerial activity and travel, were now an impossible dream.
Then came my mother’s death, just two years later. She died of Alzheimer’s disease, the effects of which were not noticeable until after the divorce. She had remained godly, fervent in her prayers for her former husband, and amazingly forgiving. But, to put it mildly, she was devastated, never before imagining that this could possibly happen to her.
Before she died, father truly repented. With tears of anguish over his actions, he asked the family’s forgiveness. He even came to the bedside of my mother to speak with her prior to her death. But the damage was done. He had lost his job, his reputation, his confidence, his family’s respect, his future ministry, his joy, and even the assurance of his own salvation. He had been a fool.
We are now twenty-two years beyond that awful period of time. Thankfully, Dad has been restored to Christian vitality, though with scars. His repentance was real and lasting. He has attempted to help others avoid the sinful actions of his past. Recently, as an old man, he stood before the Baptist pastors of one of our states and said that “he was a testimony of failure in the ministry.” But he also spoke of God’s remarkable grace. He spoke on this subject as well at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth, Texas, where he had been a student. (Hear his story here)
Just this last year the four children took my father on the trip of his life. We traveled to ten small towns to visit all the memorable places of his childhood. We went to the place of his conversion, his call to preach, and his first church. This was a trip that none of us will ever forget. We laughed and cried, took pictures, and told stories all the way.
One day we drove down the dirt road to the quiet, secluded cemetery where my mother was buried, several miles outside of that familiar southern town where she grew up. This was the first time my father had seen the grave. He had refused to be disruptive by going to her funeral twenty-two years earlier. As we approached the grave, his body convulsed with tears as he clung to us. “How could I have done what I did to such a sweet person?” he cried. It was an agonizing, but cathartic moment for us all.
Why have I told this personal story? At the time of the affair, our family had attempted to convince the pastor of his church, one of the most prominent churches in the large city where my parents lived, to practice church discipline on my father. We had hoped that, at that vulnerable period, he would listen and repent if the church lovingly exercised this restorative biblical practice. They refused. I’m sure it was because they were not accustomed to such action and also because of the stature of my father in the church and community.
When we were in the car after that experience at the cemetery, I asked my father this question: “Dad, we tried to get your church to discipline you when you committed adultery. They would not do it. Do you think it would have stopped you from leaving mother if they had?”
Dad, who always takes the blame for his sin himself and would not let anyone else share in it, nonetheless, very humbly admitted, “I think it would have.”
Now, let me ask you, was the church where my parents attended loving my father by refusing to discipline him? Were they being gracious and kind? Were they doing what was best for him?
More that that, was the church loving God when they did not discipline my father? Were they following the Head of the church, Jesus Christ? Were they helping other families? Were they helping the believers throughout the city? Were they instructing younger children and youth in their church in the way of holiness and the sanctity of marriage?
What is the truth here? The truth is, church discipline is the most benevolent action that can ever be taken toward an erring church member, and when it is not done, it is flagrant disobedience toward God.
Restoring Those Who Fall
Let me be practical about an important matter. You need to have a comprehensive discipline statement for your church. We have a church discipline statement that may be adopted, or adapted for your use. It is called Restoring Those Who Fall, and it is the church discipline statement that I helped to write along with one of the pastors of the church I serve. The two of us were the first pastors of the church.
I have been involved in writing several statements like this in the past, but this is the clearest and most usable presentation of this doctrine I have had the privilege to work on. Since other churches through the years have asked for this statement we decided to put it in a book called Our Church on Solid Ground. We are not publishing that book presently, but will soon offer this discipline statement, now revised, as a small booklet. Dr. Jay Adams put the first writing of this statement in his Journal of Modern Ministry making it even more accessible to leaders. FIEL Ministries of Brazil distributed 22,000 copies of this statement to pastors and leaders in a small booklet for Portuguese-speaking people also.
I do not want to presume that all of you will find our statement the best for you. However, if you cannot find a better statement, or cannot write your own, you may consider accepting this as your discipline plan.
Let me suggest that you obtain copies of this booklet when they become available for your leaders. Or, you may download the statement in electronic form found on this site. Take them carefully through each line, looking up Scriptures and talking through the implications and strategy your church will take when sin enters the fellowship. Then you might consider taking the men as a whole through a period of study on church discipline, using the statement. Finally, it could be presented to all of the members. Then, according to the way your church makes decisions, the statement could be adopted as your church discipline policy.
We have found it helpful to have all incoming members read the discipline statement. We even include these words in our church membership agreement (church covenant):
I will submit to the church’s discipline upon myself and lovingly assume my responsibility to participate in the discipline of other members, as taught in Scripture.[1]
You can understand my burden for restoring this practice. If you love people and love God, you will do it. If you neglect church discipline you will be disobeying the Head of the church, Jesus Christ, who commanded that you do it.
Restoring Those Who Fall, a church discipline statement, may be ordered from CCW for inexpensive bulk rates. The publication date for this booklet will be announced soon on this site. An electronic copy of Restoring Those Who Fall may be found online at www.CCWtoday.org or www.ChristFellowshipKC.org.
Thanks for posting that edifying article. What a blessing indeed.
Hey Tryis and Stan,
Let me stir the pot, for discussion sake. Why don’t we discipline for these:
12 Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, 13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Things such as:
Lack of Gentleness
Lack of Patience
Lack of Humility
Lack of Meekness
Lack of Compassion
Lack of forgiveness.
These are what Brother Jerry Briges calls “respectable sins”. Why do we not discipline for these sins.
A truly wonderful story of restoration AND of the importance of church discipline. I am teaching on this next week and with your permission I would love to include some of this story.
Thank you for sharing and please let your dad know his story will be used by God to help others!
hi guys,
first off, i’d like to know why pastors do not have their wives or another mature sister in the Lord present when they’re counselling women apart from their husbands. leaving the door open doesn’t work nearly as well as having another woman present.
or, why is it that when women are having marital problems, it’s the pastor who has to counsel her? are there no godly, mature women in the congregation who could minister to her?
next, what do you guys consider falling? it seems that only those who’ve sinned sexually get disciplined. what about contentious people who tend to be disruptive busybodies? are they disciplined as well? i’ve attended two large congregations that had their fair share of sour disposition “saints” and i’ve never seen them dealt with. but don’t let that girl come in there with a belly and no ring…..
and for the record, i’m not condoning pre-marital or extra- marital sex. i’m just saying that there’s a bias when it comes to meting out discipline when it comes to falling in other areas.
The article is excellent and timely showcasing why church discipline is a biblical and necessary doctrine.
My observation is that most churches have swung to one of two extremes on the issue of church disciple.
1) Non-existent
2) Overbearing and abusive, control oriented and cultic authoritarianism meted out by unbiblical church leadership structures.
The actual church discipline document contains a lot of the typical mistakes and misinterpretation of scripture in regards to church structure and biblical authority.
Hey Ty,
I saw the article and read it so never mind my question.
Hey Mav,
Check out the article in the actual post. I think this may clear up some stuff.
Two things of note:
First of all, I’m not so sure that a man who was willing to lose, “his job, his reputation, his confidence, his family’s respect, his future ministry, his joy, and even the assurance of his own salvation.”, would have been much affected by “church discipline”. Unless, we are contending that the discipline would have prevented him from losing or being willing to lose these things.
Secondly, why is it that we feel it necessary to write up “Church Discipline” statements or covenants if the bible lays out clear instructions in Matthew 18 and other places as to how we are to perform church discipline? Isn’t is a reasonable assumption that a person, by nature of their profession as a Christian, is already affirming obedience to the scriptures?
Just two thoughts.
ok lionel, i read the article and it did answer the second part of my query. but i’m waiting on a reply from the brethren, particularly any pastors/elders to address the first part.
here it is again-
i’d like to know why pastors do not have their wives or another mature sister in the Lord present when they’re counselling women apart from their husbands. leaving the door open doesn’t work nearly as well as having another woman present.
or, why is it that when women are having marital problems, it’s the pastor who has to counsel her? are there no godly, mature women in the congregation who could minister to her?
as much as my husband and i trust one another, and the Holy Spirit to convict us of any inappropriate behavior, we both know that the opposite sex’ is NOT the one to complain to nor is their shoulder the one to cry on when going through marital difficulties. pastors included.
I agree Mav,
But I will let those who Pastor answer this. Any takers?
Mrs. Maverick,
I can’t answer for others. I do not considering “counselling sessions” to be any different than discipling. I will say that whenever women need help, my wife takes part in discipling. This is not a meeting or class per se, but discipleship through sharing in life with them. I don’t know if I answered your question or not… but in short, yes, women should take part in discipling, especially when discipling other women. I think this is especially clear in Titus 2.
By the way, as a pastor I do NOT think that I can disciple everyone. If I tried, then I think I would be hurting the church, not helping.
-Alan
Maverick, you asked, “first off, i’d like to know why pastors do not have their wives or another mature sister in the Lord present when they’re counselling women apart from their husbands.”
If any gal comes to me with such issues, I refer her to my wife or another older woman. The Scripture says that the older women should give instruction to the younger, and I apply that to these issues of marriage.
Lawrence,
You wrote, “First of all, I’m not so sure that a man who was willing to lose, “his job, his reputation, his confidence, his family’s respect, his future ministry, his joy, and even the assurance of his own salvation.”, would have been much affected by “church discipline”. ”
I know many parents who have the same approach to raising their children. They figure discipline will only make them rebel more, so they figure if they have no rules and offer no discipline then their kids will not have any troubles.
Wow J.R., you typed:
“I know many parents who have the same approach to raising their children. They figure discipline will only make them rebel more, so they figure if they have no rules and offer no discipline then their kids will not have any troubles.”
Did you get that from reading my comment? Where did I say or suggest that discipline would only make an individual rebel more? Where did I say or suggest that there should be no rules? I have four children. Do you believe that this may be the way I run my house? Surely you jest.
Please re-read the comment. Then respond to the following questions/statements:
1. Isn’t “church discipline” designed to remove an individual from the loving fellowship of corporate worship so that they will be compelled to give up whatever sin they may be in to have that fellowship restored?
2. This man left his wife and children for his sin, how is removing him from some congregation going to be any worse?
3. Remember he lost “his job, his reputation, his confidence, his family’s respect, his future ministry, his joy, and even the assurance of his own salvation”. In effect, he performed “church discipline” on himself. He lost everything your so-called “church discipline” would have taken from him anyway. And he still left! Can’t you see that?
4. Did you read this statement in the article?:
“The four children gathered, from long distances, at my parent’s home to beg for dad’s repentance. He appeared to repent at that time, but soon backed away from it. Like Lot’s wife, his heart was gone, even though, by his own admission, there was nothing on my mother’s part to cause his sin. He did not turn around. Rather, he divorced my mother, married his secretary, and moved to another city. His retirement years, which at one time were going to be filled with ministerial activity and travel, were now an impossible dream.”
Now, are you going to tell me that church discipline would have reversed this? Please?!
5. He only repented when his ex-wife became ill unto death. By then it was to late to repair the damage done.
6. J.R., go back to the first century where a believer was 100% dependent on the Christian Community for his livelihood, both spiritually and naturally. Now fast-forward 20 centuries ahead and tell me that the conditions are the same. What “church discipline” is designed to deprive an individual of, hardly exist in 99% of churches in America. For example, go back and read the accounts in First and Second Corinthians of the young man who had taken “his father’s wife”. Take a good look at the entirety of the situation and you will recognize why “church discipline”, of the manner of which Paul speaks, was so powerful in bringing this young man back. There was no alternative “church” around the corner for him to go to. Perhaps even his daily food was supplied by the church. Sorry man, but in this day and age, if the Holy Spirit doesn’t bring conviction of sin causing repentance, then I’m not so sure how effective “church discipline” would be in this present climate.
I’m all for church discipline. I believe that it is biblical. I just don’t see it’s power or effectiveness in this particular situation.
By the way, the children rearing comparison misses badly on several levels. Note,
1. Parents and children are not equals but those in the Body are. Therefore, a parent has the upper hand on their child in several ways in which the church doesn’t have over the members.
2. Parents have the power over their children because they provide the food, clothes, shelter, and recreation. Today we are mostly self-sufficient in the body.
3. Parents can and sometimes do use physical motivation (spanking, standing in the corner) to reach a desired result. The church is not authorized to do so.
4. These “parents” that you are describing (which I’ve never met) are making an assumption based on observations that are obviously misguided. However, the church has instructions which are not mostly results driven but obedience driven. I’m not suggesting that the church discipline should not have been done but it’s a case of high speculation to believe it would have restored the Dad. The church would have been obedient to the Lord to do discipline. But the Dad appears to have been one who would not have been effected by it. Even given his hindsight capitulation to the contrary.
Let me know what you think.
Praise the LORD!
Greetings in the Name of our LORD & SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.
I will attempt with the SPIRIT’s guidance to answer questions on this discussion. The author asked some very important questions. “Now, let me ask you, was the church where my parents attended loving my father by refusing to discipline him? Were they being gracious and kind? Were they doing what was best for him?
More that that, was the church loving God when they did not discipline my father? Were they following the Head of the church, Jesus Christ? Were they helping other families? Were they helping the believers throughout the city? Were they instructing younger children and youth in their church in the way of holiness and the sanctity of marriage?”
The Church and especially the leaders of that denomination were showing respect of persons by not confronting privately and then publicly this man’s fathers blatant sin. There silence was sin. They were terrible example to that body of believers by DOING NOTHING! They compromised the word of GOD. They failed to Discern! They failed to Discipline. They will give an account in judgment…it’s that plain and simple.
Saints, GOD does not MAKE US DO Anything…GOD does not force HIS will upon you…GOD does not make you obey HIM…HE gives you convincing arguments if you REFUSE to follow CHRIST…That’s HIS Holy Word!
Mrs. Maverick, on your question…some women come to pastors with problems at spur of the moment times…that’s why pastors, especially must watch and pray and be ready…The key is not being by yourself when ministering or counseling…I prefer to counsel a woman with my wife or refer a woman to the Church mothers…BUT sometimes that is not feasible…We have to follow the example of CHRIST..A lot of women in need approached JESUS but JESUS did not sin with them, Amen. Some people need a right now prayer and a right now word…if you know what I mean….The key is avoiding the very appearance of evil and document every counseling session, even the ones over the telephone. Depending upon the situation, I strive to be with another Christian when counseling. And when counseling married women, to be in the right order…as a a man–I always ask where is your husband-ALWAYS! Never ever get between another man and his wife–NEVER! Other than if that husband is threatening to kill his wife (if that is discerned) and/or committing adultery, that husband must be approached first by two male witnesses I believe in these worst case scenarios. Other than that, husband and wife need to be counseled together by a seasoned Christian married couple. This is very hard to do in this day and time!
That’s why the gift of discerning spirits MUST BE THE #1 Spiritual gift that every Christian leader should Covent in this day and time! Prophecy will cease, tongues will cease–but DISCERNING WISDOM is needed like NEVER BEFORE!
Dear Brother Lawrence D (beautiful family by the way),
I agree with you wholeheartedly about this man. He KNEW he was in sin and he CHOSE to abandon his wife and family.
The Question…WHY IS DISCIPLINE NONEXISTENT today?…
The “Fear of GOD” is, in my humble opinion, NONEXISTENT as a whole from the body of CHRIST in America. The church is seen as a JOKE to sinners and that’s why we as a whole have become irrelevant to this culture today! Sinners do not want to be like the Church because they SEE the SAME SINS they are doing in the world in the Church! Amen.
I remember very vividly as a child and even as a teenager, we were fearful to not say “bad words” near a church, tell a story(lie) on church grounds or even smoke cigarettes or anything near a church or “church people”! But today’s generation, man they have NO fear of GOD and no self respect for anyone!
I know a lot of people are praying for the USA to repent, but judgement starts FIRST at the house of GOD–The Churches, ALL of us, you and I, –none are exempt–ALL of us need to repent. As a whole, we are showing the works of the flesh and not the works of the HOLY GHOST–like they did in the book of Acts. Let some Ananias and Saphira stuff start happening, BELIEVE me, we will see the “Fear and Reverence of GOD restored” and we will be like the Church in the Book of Acts. I describe our condition today in American Christainity as “Ichabod”–the Glory has departed. Amen.
Keep it up brother Lionel and GOD bless you, your wife and your family(beautiful–I praise GOD for seeing Christian black married men like yourself standing up for CHRIST), and your END-TIME ministry in JESUS NAME!
Elder Grover W. Stephens, Jr.
hi grover,
i’m all for Jesus being alone with women, after all He is God-, lol. with man, it’s a whole ‘nother story, amen.
i have no problem with a “right now” prayer. it’s that one time and we keep it moving. it’s the counseling sessions where things tend to veer off in the wrong directions. i’m all for women counseling women and men with men. i do take exception to pastors who wear all the hats and have to be privy to everything.
when a woman or man is going thru issues at home they’re already vulnerable, so that godly man or women whom they are sharing their personal business with, seems so compassionate, and understanding, and soooo unlike the “rotten” spouse at home. meanwhile, the pastor, elder, bishop, etc. could be just as inattentive to his own wife at home, or just as big of a waster of money, etc. etc. (whatever the complaint may be) but he comes of smelling like a rose to the counselee. and vise versa- the woman the man is complaining to about his “nagging” wife, may just as likely do the same things to her own husband. that’s why i’m all for the older women instructing the younger women in how to love their husbands, children, being keepers at home and all that good stuff.
with another women, we can be transparent and more often than not- the older woman has already been down the road that the younger woman is now traveling. if an elder cannot counsel with his wife or another woman present, then i strongly feel he should not be doing the counselling at all.
Mav,
My answer is no. We don’t sit with her. I wouldn’t. I would call my wife on 3-way or wait for some godly woman to be present with me. But that is my opinion. The problem could be that we believe the Pastor is responsible for the counseling and not every member of the body.
A very important spiritual principal–when JESUS sent out the disciples, HE sent them out in 2s. A disciple was never suppose to be by himself/herself when ministering because when or if 1 disciple became weak, the other 1 was there to carry the “yoke”…like 2 oxen plowing a field and yoked together. Amen.
I was reflecting on why Church Discipline IS NOT VERY EFFECTIVE today. I truly believe that “Discerning of spirits” is totally lacking today in American Churches/Organizational Hierarchy or Denominational Structure as a whole. Why I believe this is the case, just about every month…now it seems like weekly, there is a scandal or bad news about “pastors” and “deacons”! Worse case scenarios, are like Ted Haggard and the Sherman Allen that come to mind.
Where was the spiritual discernment from the leaders supposedly overseeing when it came to Weeks/Bynum and Randy&Paula White? Was the “LOVE of Money and Fame” more important than spiritual disciplines?
Where were the watchman? Where were the prophets?
These men and women of GOD rose to great prominance–somebody either overlooked these cases(there are many more) or the American Church as a whole is ASLEEP and AT EASE IN ZION!
I have a prophetic elder friend who told me the LORD spoke to him in a vision and told him back in the late 80s and again in the mid 90s that BECAUSE the Churches WERE NOT chastening and REFUSING to discipline themselves…GOD was going to start using the World… Media, Newspapers, Senator Grassley’s “AUDIT(It is An Audit) of 6 mega large televangelist, and etc. to JUDGE the Churches because the Churches WOULD NOT judge themselves.
Bro. Lawrence,
I am glad you asked those questions, especially if you feel my comment in some way mischaracterized your post. I don’t have the time to go into all your questions, but let me just answer a few things that may help out.
You said, “Now, are you going to tell me that church discipline would have reversed this? Please?!…
I’m all for church discipline. I believe that it is biblical. I just don’t see it’s power or effectiveness in this particular situation.”
Church discipline is not about what is pragmatic, it is about loving obedience to God and an expression of love toward those lost in sin.
Fortunately, it is not up to you or me to see how it might have worked in this case or in any other case. The effectiveness is left to the Holy Spirit. Since God designed us for discipline, then it should be done and then we must trust Him for the results.
Dear brother, you also need to remember that church discipline serves as a reminder to the community that is faithful. The one in sin may or may not be restored, but in my experience the rest of the Body sees the actions of a loving church expressed in discipline and it provides a positive example for the church to help Her press on toward holiness.
Bro. J.R.,
Yes I feel you mischarecterized my post. And yes, I believe you are doing it again. You are reacting as if I’ve said something other than what you are saying. Here is the original statement in the post itself to which I was reacting:
“When we were in the car after that experience at the cemetery, I asked my father this question: “Dad, we tried to get your church to discipline you when you committed adultery. They would not do it. Do you think it would have stopped you from leaving mother if they had?”
Dad, who always takes the blame for his sin himself and would not let anyone else share in it, nonetheless, very humbly admitted, “I think it would have.”
(BLD) Now J.R. please go back and re-read my original comment. Please tell me where I have advocated or suggested a pragmatic approach to church discipline. I also find it very peculiar that you don’t have time to answer my questions but you do have time to disagree with things
Bro. J.R.,
That is, you have time to disagree with things I never said. Just so you’ll know, I don’t have a “pragmatic” approach to any of the imperatives of scripture. And if you look at what was suggested in the post by the son to the father, you may see the pragmatism that you were looking for. The son believed that church discipline would have “stopped” his dad from leaving his mom. I don’t. That’s it! What say you?
Bro. Enoch,
I forgot to acknowledge your comment and compliment. My apologies. I appreciate your kind words and the fact that you actually read my comments.
Hey Joe,
During my study on the Scriptures here is what deserves discipline.
1. Someone in grave error of doctrine with the intent to not accept loving correction and to be divisive and malicious (Titus, 2 Timothy, 2 John)
2. If someone has a fault but the problem with that is the bible doesn’t give us enough detail to really tell us what the looks like. So there is to much speculation to build a theology off of.
3. Gross immorality. Which we see in 1 Corinthians.
4. Maybe a man who will not provide for his family. Paul calls him worse than an infidel. (1 Timothy)
5. Some form of discpline for a man who won’t work and thus becomes a burden to the body and sets a bad example to the world (1-2 Thess).
What exactly would you discipline for and what would be your biblical support?
Bro. Lawrence, okay I see where I misunderstood. Thanks for your patience in helping me see more clearly what was being said.
Lionel, I would agree with your list and can’t think of anything I would add.
Oh, and I should answer your question as well Bro. Lawrence. You asked me “The son believed that church discipline would have “stopped” his dad from leaving his mom. I don’t. That’s it! What say you?”
I say I don’t have any idea what he would have done since I cannot judge the heart of another man in a circumstance I have not lived in a time and place I did not live.