I have come to the conclusion that very essence of the “Priesthood of All Believers” is beginning to erode! Why do I say such a thing? Well as usually I am glad that you have asked. I actually didn’t coin this phrase. I borrowed it from our Calvin Clark someone who discipled me years ago and still mentors me and is the family pastor of my home church. I just wanted to clarify. But I say this because of the dependency of those labeled “laymen” today.
This year or maybe late last year I saw the release of two books that greatly troubled me. Both were books on how to read books of famous theologians. Now for some that may not be an issue but for me it seems a bit crazy. So not only do I need to read the old theologian now I can read a book that helps me read the theologian. How about this, I go to the bible and read God’s word myself. That may seem arrogant and forgive me if you are reading it this way; however I feel very pressed to write this and allow the chips to fall where they may. There has been some adverse effects due to this also.
1. Flocking to the best teacher syndrome.
I have been reading some blogs lately and have been heart-broken. I don’t know where to begin. For starters, I know people individually who go to one church for the teaching and another for the fellowship. Some people even recommend that if your pastor is not a great “expositor” (can somebody show me a great expositor in the scriptures please or even the word exposition) then you have the right to leave your local gathering. Now for one thing you are no more responsible to stay at one local gathering as you are to wear the same pair of underwear but this is a different topic. But to abandon a group of believers that know you and can help “spur you on” because you are not being “fed” is downright horrible! To recommend they leave is even worse.
Now I have to take a sidebar here that may cause some of you to get upset and I am fine with that. What we call teaching today ain’t teaching! Plain and simple. I wrote this on Pulpit Magazine also. To have someone come and “expound” scripture to you for 45 minutes to an hour while you sit there and listen isn’t teaching the last time I checked. When I teach my son how to ride a bike, I don’t get on the bike ride it for an hour then say here have at it. Teaching first requires interaction, feedback, answering of questions and the like. Today we have made Sunday School or different small groups this but Sunday is the day to showcase exposition skills and you become a spectator not a pupil! Now back to the original program
What this has caused is the “I am of Peter” and “I am of Paul” Christianity. So we have guys not quoting scripture and coming to it to find their answers but going to their “Rabbis” and getting answers. Doesn’t seem much different than Jesus’ day to me but I will regress.
2. People come to the fisherman not the lake!
What we have then is people now becoming dependent on teachers instead of going to the word themselves and getting an answer from God. This is sad. Hence the welfare system. Feed someone for free long enough and they will not have a desire to work for it. This is what we have today. People pop on an Ipod instead of their bibles. People read books instead of their bibles (nothing wrong with reading but you better come with a heart to wrestle with the text they provided and get your own answer). Their doctrinal convictions come from those who have published work instead of the one who published the source of their work, namely God. The dangers of this can be huge. It is funny that the Reformers fought to get a bible in everyone hands and we turn around and give it back to our “pastors” so they can tell us what is in it!
3. Pulpits are not the Center of the Church Christ is
I actually wrote on this before but will touch on it again. Christ is the center of the local gathering not the Pulpit. When the writer of Hebrews is telling them not to forsake the gathering please read the reason why found in Chapter 10:
24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
The purpose is to spur one another on, not to have the scriptures expounded. If that is a time of just prayer, bible study methods, testimonies, coming to evangelize, or just partaking of the Lord’s Supper and discussing the word then all of those would fall into this category. This is what they did in Acts 2. Sunday has now become like a close Lakers game. Give Kobe the ball and let everyone stand around and watch. We have given our “pastors” the bible and everyone stands around and waits. This would be foreign to anyone in the first few centuries of the church where the gatherings would have been interactive.
So how does this erode the priesthood of all believers? We see it with clergy/laymen distinctions. We see it when the teaching is only in the hands of the “pastors” and that teaching is more like a presidential address than it is a teaching. We see it because believers can’t stand on their own legs but must quote one of their famous theologians, and we see it because people would rather read a book than spend a few hours in their bibles wrestling with the scriptures. In turn most Christians come like the seal or whale at the zoo! The wait for the zookeeper to toss them some fish until they are hungry again, instead of being out in the wild fighting for survival. Our current teaching style is making stronger Christians maybe more heady Christians but their dependence on man not the Spirit!
Bro Lionel,
In reading this post, I understand the problem that you are trying to address. But, one word of caution – you have to be sure not to throw out the baby with the bath water or to pendulum shift all the way to the left because of a problem you may see all the way on the far right.
A couple of thoughts/questions for you:
Are your thoughts about teaching biblically balanced?
Are your thoughts about the need for believers to find a sound expositional church biblically balanced?
Are you thoughts about the centrality of the “pulpit” (I will replace it with the “Word of God”) in the gathering biblically balanced?
Instead of giving you the answers in the form of criticism (and primarily cause you my boy and all)…I thought I would ask you if you have addressed the problem in the way that you are exhorting people to not rely so heavily on a man or a book – i.e – digging in the Scriptures?
Just some thoughts…I’m sure we’ll need to chop this up more (and since I’m back in the blogsphere now and all…I got some time…;-)
Jude 2-3,
Q
I knew I could depend on some good brothers to help me out. LOL!!! So let me answer some will be with questions of my own.
1. Yes, what does the bible teach about teaching biblically monolguistic or interactive? In other words I can only go off what I can see in Scripture which is quite different from biblical teaching today which is strictly monolouge.
2. I don’t see where the bible says “find a sound expositional church”. What exactly does that look like biblically? I do see where Timothy and Titus are charged to teach sound doctrine and told to equip faithful man to teach others, and for women to teach women and older man to teach younger men and parents to teach children, but not for a Senior pastor to teach everyone. So I think I am being biblical. I believe sound expositional teaching to be the resposibility of every teacher of the bible which includes all those listed above.
3. I think the word of God is one apsect of the gathering but so are many others which I believe to be overlooked in the worst of ways. I think it all starts with a clear view of what biblical truth is but many of the one anothers that are imperatives in scripture (Hebrews 10, Col 3) that are to take place are neglected and we have now elevated one over the other.
So let me ask a couple of questions and I would love to work it out in both places (phone and here so others can interact)
1. Where is expositional teaching found in scripture? Sound teaching yes! If so is that a redemptive historic or a literal? Is that a 15 minute exhortation with 45 minutes of interaction or a 1 hour monologue? You see where I am going? Who sets the standard?
2. Do people grow more by a monolgue or dialogue? How did Jesus teach?
3. When Christians get together for the local gathering, what we call church, what exactly are we commanded to do and are churches who meet in the Western traditional sense doing this when we gather? In other words how many are eating a meal everytime they meet? This would seem like the normal practice based off of my study of scripture.
Not being combative I am saying why do we do what we do and if we do it that way is that the way it has to be done and better yet is it even the best way to do it? So as it relates to your questions I am saying the bible isn’t clear one way or the other and the words we use to describe our gatherings and what goes on in these gatherings aren’t biblical either.
Youth Leaders
Worship Leaders
Expositional Monologue
Small Groups
These things would be unheard of but we do them and make them biblical.
Hello,
I had a question regarding your first point about leaving a place where we are being spurred on to find a place that we are taught properly or something to that matter. I was attending a church that was into the prosperity gospel but I still have friends there that encourage me and I can still chop it up with and the church is culturally diverse. My current church, which is a calvary chapel, does expository teaching but my wife and i are part of the very few minorities that attend and we have not really connected with anyone in the congregation. In most settings I’m the only “brother” their and I wrestle with thoughts that go along with that so in this situation in your opinion what would be better, staying at the other church where we have the friends but the word is taught with a hint of prosperity doctrine or be in the church where we are getting solid teaching but the fellowship is no their yet and we’ve been going their close to a year now. Just wanted some thoughts on this.
Good questions bro…and there are many different questions you are asking in one. This is good because I think we should all be thinking biblically about the church and her ministry(ies).
With that said, I will say that there is much about the Western church in how it structures herself that is not biblical. But, are the scriptures so unclear as you say? I think not…I believe what we need is a broader scope of understanding biblical doctine and teaching.
We also have to be sure to define minsitry (i.e., preaching, teaching, etc.) biblically.
There are many ways that I can approach answering; but, because of the many issues you’ve raised (they are all related), I’ll need to take some time and think through how to synthesize my thoughts so that I will be (biblically) clear and not convoluted.
I’ll get back at you in a bit.
Q
Hey 2Cor517,
Thanks for the inquiry. My immediate response IS LACE YOUR SHOES UP, TIGHTEN YOUR BELT AND RUN AS FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE! Now I am glad you asked the question in this way. I am not condoing staying in a church that teaches falsely. That would fly in the face of 1-2 Timothy, Peter, and Titus to say the least. Those who teach false doctrine is to be warned, rebuked, then marked and we are to recommend those who are members their to flee such false churches. If the Gospel and Teaching is false, the church is false. Now I am not talking about doctrinal differences (Eschatology, Gifts versus Cessasionist, 5 Points, 4 Points, no Points, Dispensational vs Covenantalism vs NCT) I am speaking of a blatant disregard of God’s word which include anyone on the Bad Church List AND ANY CHURCH that affiliates with them.
So no I can’t encourage you nor can you stay in a church who teaches false doctrine, that would be giving you authority to do something God forbids! The Apostles are clear about staying away from such wolves (Acts 20). You will be the best light possible to your friends by standing up for God’s truth regardless of your relationship even if that is your spouse. You are not even given the right to stay in a false church for the sake of your loved ones. If it comes down to disobeying God or upsetting loved ones I have to give you Acts 4 when Peter said to the Sanhedrian “rather it is better to please God or man”!
So again I am not endorsing going to churches who teach falsely I want to start a discussion on Good biblically sound churches and the way we do church here in the West (and everywhere else we plant churches because they are but our offspring).
Bro. Lionel,
I was reading the post trying very hard to get your point. I was really on my way to agreeing until you wrote in your response to Q:
(Bro. Lionel) “So as it relates to your questions I am saying the bible isn’t clear one way or the other and the words we use to describe our gatherings and what goes on in these gatherings aren’t biblical either.”
If the bible isn’t clear one way or the other, then what is the basis of your saying that the way things are done are unbiblical? Or did I miss the point? Again, LOL!!! Are you saying that any form of “you must do church this way”, or “only this fill-in-the-blank” type of church is biblical” teaching itself is unbiblical?
I just want to know what I am really agreeing or disagreeing to. It may help me add something more to the discussion.
By the way, personal bible study coupled with challenging interaction is the best kind. To me you don’t have this inbred allegiance to any particular teacher that causes you to just regurgitate his interpretation when you commit to study on your own. Had it not been for personal bible study (and God’s grace in the many things that He used) I would still be a member of the Grand ol’ COGIC, looking for a pastoralship.
First, I want to say I think this is a great question:
“why do we do what we do and if we do it that way is that the way it has to be done and better yet is it even the best way to do it?”
I think what you’re asking is “What is a biblical philosophy of ministry and how do we carry it out consistently with Scripture?”
On the issue of clarity – I’m with Bro. Lawrence – if there is no biblical clarity on these issues – then there is no basis for calling out any particular practice as unbiblical.
But, as I wrestled with how to answer your questions – I just thought I’d start by trying to answer each one. So, i’m going to post answers to one question at a time. Sorry this is so long…but digging in the Word for ourselves is what you wanted us to do!
Question 1: Yes, what does the bible teach about teaching biblically monolguistic or interactive? In other words I can only go off what I can see in Scripture which is quite different from biblical teaching today which is strictly monolouge.
My answer to this one actually answers parts of the later questions too. But, first, I would say that churches practice both “monologue” and “interactive” teaching. And I believe you see both in Scripture. For instance, (as far as the gospel accounts tell us) you see Jesus preaching in monologue fashion on the Sermon on the Mount and in the Olivet Discourse and in the Upper Room. At other times you see Jesus in dialogue with others.
But, it seems that the question is more geared to our gathering of worship. Well we should find a particular text that teaches us how to “conduct ourselves in the household of faith.” Ahhh…I Timothy….
In 4:13 Paul says, “Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching”
In this passage, Timothy is to give attention to “the reading,” – the customary practice among the gathering of Jews in the synagogue was a reading of Scripture then an expounding on the text to give its meaning (or sense) – e.g. – Neh 8:1-8 or Luke 4:16-27; “the exhortation” calls/encourages people to obedience. Then separately there is “the teaching” – where doctrine is systematically taught. These are the aspects of the proclamation of God’s Word that were to be present in the gathering of God’s people.
What we see is that Timothy was to “give attention” to the ministry of the Word. Then again, in 2 Tim 4 we see the exhortation to Timothy to “preach the word”. In all of the pastoral letters we see Paul exhorting to teach sound doctrine and he explains what they are to teach (“patter of sound words”, “what accords with sound doctrine”, etc.). So, at the least we can say that the ministry of the Word had some form of central place. (I’ll mention this again in Ques #3.)
Now that’s important to mention now because if teaching and instruction is to be a central aspect of their gathering – there needs to be a lot of listening going on. I believe that in the gathering it was often both (monologue and dialogue), but always beginning with monologue as “the reading” (with expounding on text) and “the exhortation”are monologue in nature. There are examples of Paul “talking on and on” putting people to sleep (Acts 20:9)
Preaching and teaching are two distinct aspects of the ministry of the Word (e.g., 1 Tim 5:17)…though both are the same in content. In preaching, proclamation, exhortation – it is always monologue. And given aspects of continuity between Israel (Jewish custom) and the practice of the Church (as mentioned from 1 Tim 4) and that Paul put emphasis on the centrality of the ministry of the Word of God, in the least, we can expect that in the gathering of the saints, the ministry of the Word began in the form of monologue and often took its main shape in that form but at some point had to take a dialogical form.
This is just an exegetical look, a thorough historical study looking at historical documents in the early church might give us a better understanding as to how they structured the teaching.
But, I think as long as the elements of proclamation mentioned in 1 Tim 4:13 are present in the church where God’s people are truly being taught sound doctrine and the teaching of God’s Word is the central aspect to ministry – then there is no problem. Which leads us to the next questions…
Ok…next set of questions. I want to try to answer these together (not necessarily in order):
2. I don’t see where the bible says “find a sound expositional church”.
3. I think the word of God is one apsect of the gathering but so are many others which I believe to be overlooked in the worst of ways.
4. Where is expositional teaching found in scripture? Sound teaching yes! If so is that a redemptive historic or a literal? Is that a 15 minute exhortation with 45 minutes of interaction or a 1 hour monologue? You see where I am going? Who sets the standard?
First, we need to understand that the ministry of the Word of God is not only foundational, but central to the growth of the Church in maturity and ministry.
We can’t see the Word of God as just “one aspect of the gathering”. We have to recognize that without the ministry of the Word – there is no “equipping the saints for the work of service.” Without the ministry of the Word – there is no “one anothering.” Without the ministry of the Word – there is no “admonishing and teaching one another” or “older teaching younger” because they won’t know what to teach.
Eph 4:11-16 teaches this very clearly. Certain gifts/offices are given to the Church for the express purpose of equipping the saints to minister to one another for their maturity and building up one another in love. Thus, the teaching ministry is not only foundational, but the whole engine that runs the ship; an effective ministry of proclamation of the Word is the key for growing in maturity (sanctification).
You show me any church where there are godly, mature, and loving Christians – then I will show you a church that has a high view of Scripture where the Word of God is central in the worship and the life of the church and the leaders are godly men who are sound in the faith because they are sound expositors. Which leads to the matter of expositional preaching/teaching…
I think people let themselves trip (or get hung up) over the term “expository”; and there are those who espouse it that have too narrow a definition of it. But, we need to think of “exposition” just like “trinity” – there word isn’t in Scripture but the concept is all throughout.
The term expository is merely an adjective to describe something that is serving to expound, set forth, or explain; a setting forth of meaning or intent. This is exactly what biblical expository preaching seeks to do – set forth the meaning or intent of the Word of God. MacArthur – describes it this way:
“The only logical response then to inerrant Scripture is to preach it expositionally. By expositionally, I mean preaching in such a way that the meaning of the biblical text is presented entirely and exactly as it was intended by God.Expository preaching is the proclamation of the truth of God as mediated through the preacher.”
It is essentially to proclaim the meaning of the Scripture as God intended it. So, expositors seek to get at the intended meaning in the text. This is what we see Christ doing in Luke 4, Peter doing in Acts 2, and what Paul is essentially commanding Timothy and Titus to do (“retain the pattern of sound words”, “preach the word”) I believe expository just encapsulates what theologians observe to be biblical preaching. So, expository preaching is sound teaching. This post I wrote last year expounds on that more.
Now the question of redemptive historical or verse-by-verse exegetical is a larger one – but from my vantage point expository preaching involves both – you can’t have one without the other (you can throw systematic doctrinal preaching/teaching into that mix also).
As far as the standard for time limits etc. – I think one must just use some common sense wisdom. Can 15 minutes really get at the heart of a passage like Romans 7:14-25?
Can an hour? The point is that significant attention needs to be given to the Word of God in the context of the gathering so that God’s people can be adequately instructed as well as given a high view of Scripture and the recognition that they need a steady and healthy diet of sound biblical teaching (which must be expositional for it to truly be biblical).
So, the question of where does the bible say “find an expositional church” – you’re right – it doesn’t say that expressly. But, given where we are in the eschaton and the Scriptures give a clear call for believers to be discerning, it would be unwise (and even dangerous and thus sinful) for us to not encourage believers to find a church where there are godly leaders who are sound in doctrine.
Finally, I think it is wise to exhort believers not to idolize men (whether preachers or writers) or to be careful not to …to remember the purpose of God gifting particular men to the Church (Eph 4:11-16)…and to structure ministry that truly causes the body to grow up into maturity and living as the body has been called to live. But, the body can only do that through sound expositional preaching/teaching.
I don’t pretend to be an expert on these issues – but I do believe there is a pattern of Scripture to be followed in regards to what lies at the heart of the Church’s ministry and what matters ought to be given emphasis in the life of the Church. But, what must be understood is that teaching is the foundation, core, key, heart, soul, and life blood of the Church.
Hope this is good fodder for thought and discussion.
the link to the post on my blog from last year i mentioned above didn’t work but here it is:
http://truthintheinnermost.blogspot.com/2007/06/expository-preaching-black-white-or.html
Please agree,
I meant a-biblical! Not “un” biblical. When I hear “this is the way” to do “church” then I say that must be clear in scripture. The tear gas I am throwing out has to do with expository preaching as the “biblical” way to preach. I would say sitting down at a table or on a couch would be just as biblical. Christ gave His sermon on the mount from on top of the mountain, but the rest of His teaching was done quite differently. I laugh when I hear reformers talk about the pulpit being the center of the local gathering. I believe teaching is important, but no more important than encouraging and prayer. Do a search on why the Pulpit must be high up I have heard one famous theologian say “because it is the proclamation of God’s word”. That is hilarious and can’t be supported by Scripture.
The real focus of the post was to try to make the claim that those who teach should teach others how to learn in order that they can excercise the blessings of the priesthood of believers. We have more Christians (especially amongst those who are reformed) quoting theologians and not the scriptures. Now their are books on books and we have become so dependent upon “expository” preaching that we have become like animals at a zoo. We can’t hunt ourselves we wait for someone to throw us a steak or some fish.
Hey Q,
I appreciate it bro. Lets jump into (I am enjoying this by the way, very insightful information and wisdom as ususal, but…..)
1. Lets use the Jewish Synagogue for an example. How would a Jewish synagogue run? What I mean is who did the teaching there? How was Paul, Peter, Stephen and even Jesus allowed to speak in the synagoge? Did they sit there 1 hour as somone “exposited” the text and then wait to speak? History tells me that many different men would stand up and give a 15 minute-30 minute exposition of the scripture, but not only that it was open for discussion afterward. Here is America we have one or maybe two teachers (depending on what their status is) and they teach for one hour with no follow up questions and they do this for 25-30 years if they are really good. We also see in Timothy Paul saying “until I come” what happened after he came?
(Q) Said: “You show me any church where there are godly, mature, and loving Christians – then I will show you a church that has a high view of Scripture where the Word of God is central in the worship and the life of the church and the leaders are godly men who are sound in the faith because they are sound expositors. Which leads to the matter of expositional preaching/teaching…”
(Lionel AKA Hot Chocolate): Brother I want to agree here but I can’t. I know some people who left a lot of these churches for the very reason people were coming getting sound biblical teaching and things like fellowshp, prayer, and the one anothers were ignored like a homeless man downtown.
However I do believe you are right in the fact that the word is really the engine of the ship, I am more concerned on how that engine works not that the word isn’t the engine and what I see is someone, week after week, month after month, being spoken to and never being engaged. It is like a man who takes a gallon of water and throws it into air and everyone has a shot glass. It is much more effective to pour it into their cup.
(Lionel): As it relates to time I am saying give two hours but only a few minutes of monlogue. That is my problem the monologuistic style. I can get an Ipod for that. I don’t need to waste 4.00 a gallon gas to hear someone speak to me at a conferece. Q, this shouldn’t be so. If you will spend 1 hour “expositing” the text then take the next hour for questions, follow up and othe such things. ……….. (continued on the next comment)
(Q) Said:
“Now that’s important to mention now because if teaching and instruction is to be a central aspect of their gathering – there needs to be a lot of listening going on. I believe that in the gathering it was often both (monologue and dialogue), but always beginning with monologue as “the reading” (with expounding on text) and “the exhortation”are monologue in nature. There are examples of Paul “talking on and on” putting people to sleep (Acts 20:9)”
You know what is funny? What Paul did in Acts 20 is exactly what I am saying the local gathering should look like (maybe minus the into midnight bid). Lets look at Acts 20:
“7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. 9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.”
The word there in Acts 20 actually stands in exact oppositon to a monologue. It is the word “διαλέγομαι” or “dialegomai” which means to dialogue it is used throughout the scriptures around 18 times with 90% or so occuring in Acts. It happens to be the same word translated, debate, reason, or dispute. (These greek tools work great LOL).
So I am saying what Paul did was the exact opposite and what happened in the synagogues sabbath after sabbath is the exact opposite of what hapens in our gatherings. I will continue with one more response……..
Thanks for the response, I’m not in that church anymore I’m currently at a calvary chapel church but my wife and I have yet to establish any real relationship with anyone in the church. The old church was here caseytreat.org and the people were great but we did not agree with the theology, we were there for about 3 years or so and met at that church so in the beginning it was odd for my wife to leave but since we’ve been in our new church she can see the difference in the message and focus of the people. I just wonder why is it that when we find a church with solid teaching we are one of the few “minorities” there. The old church was very multicultural so this new one has been a big adjustment. Sometimes I think God has placed us in this situation to learn and grow and because my desire is to one day pastor a multicultural church that uses the expository teaching style. I just wish that there were more churches with minority pastors that taught with that style and is a house of prayer for all nations. Sometimes I wonder should we really have black, white, asian,etc…churches when God says that His house would be a house of prayer for all nations and with the fact that we are new creations in Christ. Sure different cultures have different needs but should that be the thing that divides us on Sunday morning, are’nt we there for the gospel and to grow the body (all believers of all backgrounds)?
Now this may be a stretch Q, let a brother know, but I have been looking at this and trying to construct what a local gathering would have looked like (until the 4th century which actually was destructive to the church of God). I am going to put some verses out there and construct a view:
Col 3
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17 And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
1 Cor 14
26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1 Cor 11
17 But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, 19 for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. 20 When you come together, it is not the Lord’s supper that you eat. 21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not.
1 Tim 2
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
Heb 10
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Now those are a lot of verses but let me construct what I think we would have seen in narrative style:
Walking in to a first century church you would have seen every one sitting in some type of circle or group. Some hymns and psalms would be sung, led by many people (not a worship leader) After that A man or multiple men (maybe a leader) would get up and publicly proclaim the scriptures, I believe applying Christ or exalting Christ from the Old Testament and how to live the Christian life. There would then be interaction and prayer. They would then have food and fellowship and partake of the Lord’s Supper, more encouragement maybe some closing prayer then they would head out to work (this would be done maybe on a Sunday morning). Women would not be able to teach and children would be invovled in the service. Anyone could lead a song and any man could lead. They would bring prophecies and exhortations which would be tested by the leaders.
But today…..
We come to church maybe 5 to 10 minutes before “worship” starts. A man or woman gets on stage and picks the songs we are going to sing for the day. Shortly after a man makes it on stage, preaches a sermon for roughly 45 minutes to an hour. We then get a couple of more songs at the end. Someone comes along gives us a cracker and some Welch’s grape juice. We read some scriptures are exhorted to examine ourselves (which is really just a ritual) then eat the cracker drink the juice. Someone closes us in prayer and we hurry off to enjoy the rest of the day.
1. No interaction with the text
2. No Shepherding going on
3. No encouragment or spurring one another along
4. No fellowship of the Spirit.
5. No Lord’s Supper.
6. Pretty much no “one anothers”
So again if we say the Bible is our Infalliable Rule and Authority then what I see in Scripture ain’t practiced much at all. These things can’t be passed along to auxulleires either.
Hey 2 Cor,
Tell the leadership about it. Tell them that it has been very hard to connect and that you are looking for authentic biblical relationships and see what he says. If he ignores you leave. If he challenges the believers through word then you know you are in a healthy church. But don’t sit back and say nothing. You wouldn’t be spurring them on to love and good deeds if you ignore what seems to be a problem of people not reaching in to fulfill the commands of scripture.
Check out an article at http://www.ccwtoday.org (it is called should we have black churches, white churches or cowboy churches)
Bro. Lionel you typed:
“I believe teaching is important, but no more important than encouraging and prayer. ”
In the matter of what is more important, I’m at a lost as to what analogy I could use to describe my feelings on this statement. In the context of the Christian life, we get EVERYTHING FROM THE BIBLE. Even you have intimated that you (as well as I) would be more comfortable with the people who are screaming “Church should be done this way” if it was biblical. Therefore, the teaching (and learning) of the bible has got to be most important. Without it, the Christian life would be a building with no foundation. You mentioned prayer and encouraging one another. But we learn how to pray from the bible and we learn how to encourage one another from the same. Now I know I’m mixing “bible” with “teaching”, and I know you are not saying that we don’t need the bible but everyone starts off needing to be taught. And I agree it should lead to an ability to learn on one’s own. There should be no total dependency except on Christ!
I think we’re on the same page on this. Keep it going! By the way, expound (or exposit, LOL) more on what the Lord’s Supper should look like. I’d love to incorporate it into my home bible study. And actually teach on it.
honestly bro…not to be dismissive…but i really think you’re overanalyzing this thing. We can talk offline on particular points of your response (i.e., the texts you mentioned, like 1 Cor 14) because it will get too detailed and I don’t have time to write all this out – so I’m going to just speak to the whole argument generally…
I think its good to look carefully at how the 1st century church gathered together and worshipped and shared in one life (koinonea) together and to attempt to have our gatherings mirror these as much as possible.
And I would agree with you that Churches need to consider what they are and are not doing to foster true body life (i.e., the 6 things you mentioned or more succcinctly – Acts 4:42, devotion to apostolic teaching, fellowship, breaking bread – the supper, and prayer).
I do think churches need to guard themselves from dead rituals….and I also agree that many churches are a stage show and don’t promote genuine fellowship…(I myself am not fond of how the supper is done in this day and age – but never the less it is still proclaiming the Lords death through bread and the cup.)
…AND if people are not genuinely loving believers and fellowship and prayer are being ignored like a downtown homeless bum (I love that metaphor)…then that church then it is falling way short of preaching the whole counsel – no matter how solid their doctrinal statement or tradition may be.
We can’t necessarily get caught up in the how to’s – only to the degree that the how’s are not fostering true New Covenant community distinctives but are hindering them and where man and not Christ (and His Word) are not exalted…and also to the degree that these practices are reasonable for the dynamics of that particular community (i.e., we wouldn’t have a Wednesday night bible study for 3 – 5 hours because folks got work and school the next day…that would not help them foster an attitude of doing all things for the glory of God). For many “how to’s” are becoming an idol unto themselves. But, in as much as the aspects of Acts 2:42 are taking place…then you have a healthy biblical New Covenant community.
The questions, as it relates to the Church are whether or not the elements that make geniune practice of the Church are present in their priority and function? How that materializes may look very different from place to place. Questions such as:
1) Is the congregation devoted to the Teaching/the Word…is the Word of God exalted and taught thoroughly where the whole counsel is preached and believers are growing in all aspects of maturity?
2) Is the congregation devoted to “the fellowship” – to one another…i.e. – is there genuine love, service, and care for one another…is the congregation truly “one anothering”
3) Is the congregation devoted to the “breaking of bread” – to proclaiming the Lord’s death in the supper (now the debate about contemporary practice is growing) – but the question is whether or not there is some regular symbolic eating of bread and drinking of wine (or the juice of the vine of wine) to remember the Lord’s death. (We have to remember what the essence of the ordinance of the Lord’s Supper is. Because folk can loose its essence in sitting down for a meal too…feel me??)
4) Is the congregation devoted to prayer?? This is an indictment for most Churches and believers…but the question is whether the church is committed to it.
Now of course, congregations grow in measure, so those that have the write commitments will grow progressively. But, what churches are committed to upfront will determine to what they grow into. The problem with most churches is that instead of focusing on the simplicities of Acts 4:42… their “vision,” “purpose,” “goals,” to too particularized to their own vision – folks treat Church like an entrepeneurship and each “ministry” has to have its own look, personality, and jingle.
So that’s my overall take….this is good we can talk more offline…
I agree Q,
As long as those elements are there:
1. Authentic Fellowship
2. The Ministry of the Word
3. Prayer
4. Proclamation of the Lord’s coming
5. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper (which I still think is way too ritualistic)
6. A stong desire and practice of at least attempting to fulifill the one anothers
Then we are good to go. My struggle is these are implied by auxillaries and Sunday becomes a dog an pony ritualistic get together and this is what I see across the board. So if you reall want to dive into the word that happens on Tuesdays or Sunday school. If you really authentic life changing fellowship that happens in “small groups”, and if you really want to fulfill the one anothers then establlish relationships.
So I am saying the Word becomes the center and not the catalyst. I agree with BLD that the word is where it all starts, but to use your analogy of an engine, without the transmission, steering wheel, and body a engine is just an engine and what we have are a bunch of engines and people enjoying the engines not what the engine was meant to do.
I will give you a call this weekend. My next blog is going to really get you going. The title is:
Why Most Sheep Aren’t Shepherded!
sound’s like it’s going to be a good post!
but, to put the problem simply…we just don’t practice what we preach. our doctrine doens’t match our ministry practice. But…isn’t that so often true of our own individual lives.
Btw, did you ever listen to that sermon by my pastor on Christ’s Design for Maturing His Church from Eph 4:11-16? Did I send it to you? What did you think?
http://midatlanticbiblefellowship.org/site/audiodownloads.asp?sec_id=140005881&dlyear=0&dlcat=0
Well, coming from a Pentecostal church, I see where you’re coming from, Brother Lionel, except in our case, the commodity isn’t exposition – it’s the “Holy Ghost!”
I sit in classes at college with guys who move from church to church because the preacher in one place is doing more miracles than their previous church. When he dies down, up they go for their next fix.
I left the church I grew up because there was no exposition – there was interaction alright, just no sound doctrine in the place. All you had was preaching about the Spirit – what he can do for you, what you can do through him, what he can bring to you. Now if anyone gave me the advice to find an expositional church [which, thank God, they did], they were right…in that instance.
It’s not always the most accurate advice to give someone, especially a lazy person [even the "Roaring Reformed" get lazy] who doesn’t dig in the text, and expect the “Master Expositor” to do it for them.
Feed yourself with good food first, so when you are served, you can discern what is good food and what is poison.
Lionel,
Brother, looking at the original post, your struggle is with the apparent disappearance of the priesthood of believers. This can be attributed to a few factors:
1. The pastor has been elevated to a position into which he is viewed as high priest.
2. Our current pattern of worship in 99% of all gathering on Sundays is in total contradiction to 1 Corinthians 14. Read it over and then look at how believers gather on Sundays.
3. As a result of 1 and 2 we have conditioned ourselves to depend on a select few when in fact all believers are called to build one another up in the faith.
The priesthood of believers which is drawn from 1 Peter 2:9 having its fulfillment in Christ is such that there are no big “I’s” and little “U’s.” We all have the opportunity to bring a psalm, teaching, prayer, etc., all done by the leading of the Holy Spirit to glorify Christ and increase our joy in Him.
Your post is getting to the heart of the current eccelisiology of Christianity. It was not dealt with thoroughly in the Reformation and your post provokes many things I have been working through.
I will leave with these questions for all:
1. If you had a song that you wanted to sing on Sunday, would you be able to stand and lead it?
2. If you had a teaching or a proclamation that was laid on your heart would you be able to declare it so that “all may learn and all be encouraged?”
3. If you desired to lead in prayer, would you be able to?
Paul addressed the Corinthians in this manner and it was his command that all things done when the priesthood of believers gathered would be done for building up, that all would learn and be encouraged.
Phillip in Conway
Lionel,
The priesthood of all believers I believe is central to the Lord’s gospel, and I echo your thoughts and concerns about the current state of the priesthood of all believers. If you look through the letters of Paul you see him encouraging the saints to hold fast to the head and to live the way you describe. He is busting at his seams to get the believers to see all that they have in Christ and encouraging them to do good works. I hope you continue to flesh out those desires and seek out the answers you are looking for.
You might want to read a book entitled Pagan Christianity it traces many of our modern day church practices to their historical roots.
James