To go from one extreme to the next in the time-span of only 2 or 3 years is truly a work of God. I have done this and have had the view from each perspective; “The Extreme Charismatic Experimenter” to the “Overly Reformed Analyzer.” I would like to share my experiences briefly with you and see if I can draw a bridge between these 2 cousins. I think there is much to be learned from circumstances in life before and after the completed Canon of scripture. A question many ask is-How do we balance our circumstances in life through dreams, experiences, and unexplainable events against the written revelation of God, the Bible? Can the two walk together?
Experience- particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something.
Theology-the field of study and analysis that treats of God and of God’s attributes and relations to the universe; study of divine things or religious truth; divinity.
My Pastor invited me to a conference in Saint Louis last week on a Tuesday and Wednesday. I learned a lot of great things from many excellent preachers and teachers. What baffled me the most was with all these men being totally reformed in their theology-they had many experiences to go along with their teachings. Don’t misunderstand me here, all of their experiences were subjected to the Word of God but nevertheless, their experiences complimented and did not contradict the Word of God. I learned about Christmas Evans, Sandemanianism, John Mason Peck, and many other early Christian men who’s lives were also riddled with experiences.
Throughout all of scripture starting from Genesis and ending in Revelation we see God interacting with humanity continuously through visions, dreams, personal experiences, and even on some occasions audibly. Then all of a sudden with the culmination of the scriptures God now becomes mute and we somehow we no longer can hear from God. This may be a bit of a extreme some would say. Typically most doctrinally sound teachers of our day like John Macarthur would say that, “The foundation has already been laid and the primary communication from God to us is through the written Word of God.” In which I wholeheartedly agree with, but does that mean that God cannot and does not speak today?
My life from inception has been also accompanied by experiences that cannot necessarily be confirmed or discredited by the Bible. For one example I think of when I was born, I had neuroplastoma and my mother visited a church near the hospital since I was basically in and out of the hospital with my condition for about 2 years. While my mother was at the church(I assume it was charismatic) someone started to speak in tongues and apparently there was also a translator who translated the message or language to be Biblical.(To clarify, I believe tongues was(is) a language and not the gibberish we hear today and this can be proved throughout scripture) Long story short they called her up for prayer knowing about her situation already I assume from the translation. Excuse me for lacking the details but is this coincidence or God? I don’t know but I am sure everyone nowadays has a similar story like this one. I personally believe God would have healed my cancer apart from this churches prayers but He allowed for men and women to intercede for my health.
I have fasted for 17 days straight at a time while I was the “SUPER CHARISMATIC”, gave my last savings to the church, sought God for spiritual gifts, and many other extremes before looking to His Word first. I would encourage many of you to seek God through His written Word and if you do have a “EXPERIENCE” I would be overly skeptical since we live in such a deceptive age and our adversary is very crafty.
| Gal 1:8 | But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. |
While in the charismatic church I read many books with a untrained eye regarding things that contradicted scripture. Many things I read talking about the nature of Hell from a perspective or experience that cannot be found in scripture and in the same token contradicted Luk 16:19 - Luk 16:31. We have to have balance and understand that God can speak in any way He chooses but I would be cautious and say that hearing an audible voice is not normative and that whatever the experience might be, it will not contradict God’s word. If it does contradict most likely it is not God. This has been proved through time through all the famous cult leaders like Charles Taze Russell, Bringam Young, Joseph Smith, and many others.
| Gal 1:8 | But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. |
In conclusion our experiences should absolutely never alter our theology(study of God-the Bible). On the contrary our theology and growth in the fear and knowledge of GOD through His word should ultimately be the filter in which our experiences are rendered legit and from God or a hoax by the deceiver.
Recommended Reading: Led by the Spirit by Jim Elliff
Tyris (i assume this was written by Tyris),
this is a very important topic and appreciate you seeking to have a balanced view.
I have a few general comments:
1) I would say that your quote of J.Mac doesn’t contradict the idea that “God speaks today”; of course he does and J.Mac would say so – the question is “how?”
2) The real question is not do we have experiences…experience is an assumption of the Christian life; but the real question is “what is the nature and work of the Spirit…and how do we experience this?” Unfortunatley, i find much discussion often remains subjective (and lacking biblical objectivity) because eventually people are too emotionally tied to their “experiences”
3) The discussion of the nature and work of the Spirit has to always remain in the context of God’s overall redemptive purposes and workings throughout history – and careful observation will note that experiences in Scripture have much consistancy to them and thus ours must be kept consistant with that context. This context also includes eschatology…in which many people lack clarity of understanding as to “where” our times are in the trajectory of the eschaton. In that vein, we have to carefully consider 2 Thess 2 as it relates to observed “spiritual” phenomena.
4) Cessationists (which I am one) have often lacked a substantial teaching of the inward subjective work of the Spirit causing continuationists or “open but cautious” folk to be skeptical of the cessationist understanding and robbing cessationists themselves of the fullness of understanding and joy of the Spirit’s presence and power.
5) B.B. Warfield has a great work on the leading of the Spirit which helps to clarify the inward work of the Spirit: http://www.opc.org/new_horizons/NH01/06c.html
Here is a quote from the intro that makes it worth reading:
“There is certainly abundant reason why we should seek to learn what the Scriptures mean by “spiritual leading.” There are few subjects so intimately related to the Christian life, of which Christians appear to have formed, in general, conceptions so inadequate, where they are not even positively erroneous. The sober-minded seem often to look upon it as a mystery into which it would be well not to inquire too closely. And we can scarcely expect those who are not gifted with sobriety to guide us in such a matter into the pure truth of God.
The consequence is that the very phrase, “the leading of the Spirit,” has come to bear, to many, a flavor of fanaticism. Many of the best Christians would shrink with something like distaste from affirming themselves to be led by the Spirit of God, and would receive with suspicion such an averment on the part of others, as indicatory of an unbalanced religious mind. It is one of the saddest effects of extravagance in spiritual claims that, in reaction from them, the simplehearted people of God are often deterred from entering into their privileges.
It is surely enough, however, to recall us to a careful searching of Scripture in order to learn what it is to be led by the Spirit of God, simply to read the solemn words of our text: “As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” If the case be so, surely it behooves all who would fain believe themselves to be God’s children to know what the leading of the Spirit is.
Let us, then, commit ourselves to the teaching of Paul, and seek to learn from him what is the meaning of this high privilege. And may the Spirit of truth here too be with us and guide us into the truth.”
Hope the thoughts and article are helpful to anyone’s pursuit of God’s will in this area. Lord willing, one day I hope to do some significant writing on this issue.
Jude 2-3,
Q
sorry for the duplicate comments – i thought the first one was lost so i rewrote it all over again! you can delete the second one (or keep whichever one you think is more helpful). you can delete this one of course…
blessings,
Q
What up Q? No problem I caught before it posted. God bless and hope the family is well!
Good.
Where you said “If it does contradict most likely it is not God.” I would only add that you don’t need to say “most likely”. If it contradicts Scripture, it contradicts truth and the nature of God. Good perspective Brother.
SW
Good one here. Do you ever get the oppurtunity to minister the Gospel to those from your former charismatic past? I wrestled with why I didn’t fall out when the preacher touched me. I thought I needed an “experience” like that to really know who Jesus is. It’s a blessing to see God working those who are His out of these circles. Yet, I think about those who are still in and really love Jesus Christ.
The works of Charles Taze Russell probably was more in harmony with the Bible than most other writings of his time. His writings show that he was most diligently interested in keeping as close to the Word of God as revealed by God’s holy spirit in the Bible as possible.
Lionel I love John Mac, I also have his commentaries. But if he is so reformed and sharp. Why did he hold on to the
denial of the incarnational sonship of Christ. This was long after he became Pastor of Grace. How can someone make
an ABC blunder in Theology 101. Like I said before, unless
we know how Macarthur came to it, we will not know why
his treatise on Theology is Theology. Mind you. I attend the
Shepherds Confrence and listen to him daily, but I know
why his reformed Idealism is the way it is, and it does not bring me conflict. We need Theology in tha Hood!
Gramatical Historical Hermenuetics!
One Pastor Xerxes
Hey Pastor X,
This was written by Tyris not myself. All communication can be pointed to him so you can beat him up. LOL!!!!
Yo loinel not trying to beat anybody up. Just good to know that brothers are getting into Theology!
Karsten, what is up brother. to answer your question. I have had the opportunity to minister to many many people from my old church. I work my part-time gig in the same suburb where my old church is in. I have talked with many of them and even have had some come to my house on occasions. They ain’t hearing me. I know some people that still go there but have the same objections that I once had before I left and I ask them, “Why are you still there?” They say they can still get some good out of the bad. Foolishness. You would think people would have a different way of thinking when it comes to spiritual matters. Certainly this same logic does not apply to other areas of their lives. Peace bro and sorry for the delay in the response I have been really busy this week. You are right some are still there at those churches and I believe is they are His that they will be a catalyst for change or move on to a more fruitful environment. God Bless
What up Pastor Xerxes. Thanks for the insight bro. You sound like PJ, LOL. Sorry you all had to leave the conference early, it really seems like you brothers know a lot about theology. Thanks for checking the site.
Thanks Mr. Horton Sr. Its not about me knowing anything. Its
about us fighting for everything in Christ! We are at War, and anytime I can find some brothers that love Theology Im there.
One Pastor Xerxes!